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Poster: stratocaster Date: Aug 27, 2009 4:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

Old Rennaisance Faire Grounds Veneta, Oregon

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1972-08-27.sbd.latvala-eaton-lutch-dankseed.4682.shnf

SET 1
Promised Land 03:06
Sugaree 07:13
Me & My Uncle 03:04
Deal 04:41
Black Throated Wind 06:31
China Cat Sunflower> 07:56
I Know You Rider 06:02
Mexicali Blues 03:35
Bertha 05:44

SET 2
Playin 18:40
He's Gone 08:49
Jack Straw 04:59
Bird Song 12:19
Greatest Story 05:33

SET 3
Dark Star> 31:26
El Paso 04:39
Sing Me Back Home 10:29
Sugar Magnolia 08:33

ENCORES
Casey Jones 06:08
Saturday Night 04:41

Old Rennaisance Faire Grounds Veneta, Oregon

Cited as the best show ever by virtually every GD fansite, book, etc., Is it the "best show ever"?

Yes. It is.

The Dead were performing at an incredible level in 1972 and really honed their trademark sound...this show exhibits all the elements that go into their best performances: setting, sound quality, setlist, performance and intangibles (it was filmed, it was a one of a kind concert, unusually hot day, LSD)...China>Rider, Bertha, Mexicali Blues are standouts from the first set that are as good as it gets... Playin', Bird Song, Dark Star, El Paso, Sing Me Back Home, Sugar Magnolia, Greatest Story (09-28-1972)...a case could be made that this show features the best performances of each respective song...the jams are focused and intense...



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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Aug 28, 2009 10:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

best Dead show ever?

this has been haunting generations

itf280020.jpgwhite-dot-2x2.gifbn242031.jpg

u23717138.jpgwhite-dot-2x2.gifk0558633.jpgwhite-dot-2x2.gifk0671069.jpg

confusion.jpg

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Aug 28, 2009 10:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

Good to see Rob represented. I do love that white chair of his. But, like I've told him repeatedly, the cod piece has to chaffe a little.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Aug 29, 2009 11:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

More white hair than white chair these days - in fact perhaps more like the baffled looking old fart top right than the big brain and even bigger codpiece of old. Oh well a touch of grey, etc, etc.

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Poster: skies Date: Aug 29, 2009 12:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

hey now, Robthewordsmith ! Guess what happended here today ?Just woke up hearing bagpipes,binious,and I thought Scotland had taken over town here !So I look from my balcony and see a whole bunch od bretons cruising by who decided to play tunes before breakfast and the beach ! Ouf ! France didn't yet fall under Scotts's invasion !!!

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Aug 29, 2009 1:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

I woke up to this today in plain English

dead-head_Monte-3-stooges.jpg

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Poster: skies Date: Aug 29, 2009 2:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

Hi, deadheadMonty ! I recognise the gogo on the left but who are the other two stooges ?

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Poster: skies Date: Aug 29, 2009 2:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

PS. at any rate ,these stooges are too beurk to start seeing mornings ,they'd ruin anyone day just showing up ! I prefer scottish bagpipes !Your pictures are always interesting,deadheadMonty!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 29, 2009 12:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

Hmmm, I am just surprised I haven't been mentioned yet...and yes, maybe even a little disappointed.

I may have to start taking notes like skies. Keep track of all Forum transgressions against me.

Tout sweet!

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Aug 29, 2009 12:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

wmtell.gif

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 29, 2009 1:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

Ha! Classic commentary on my "aim" round here, eh?

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Poster: skies Date: Aug 29, 2009 1:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

well ,I didn't forget ,you left me among the wolves of your forum ,not so long ago !

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Poster: skies Date: Aug 29, 2009 12:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

how can we talk about you ,or even take notes on you if you ain't around to talk back ?

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Poster: skies Date: Aug 29, 2009 12:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

DeadheadMonty :you crack me up ,being so funny !

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Aug 30, 2009 6:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

"Cited as the best show ever by virtually every GD fansite, book, etc"

I would have to take issue with this statement. While 8/27/72 is certainly among the Top 3-4 shows that regularly come out on top in such surveys, it is by no means some sort of landslide winner. Like it or not 5/8/77 continues to frequently top such surveys, as does 2/13/70 and several others. It's certainly notable for its circumstances, but purely from a musical standpoint, it is simply one more outstanding show from a period when outstanding shows were the rule rather than the exception. I think the show's reputation got quite a boost from John Dwork's comically over the top review in the first Taping Compendium.

I'm not disputing it's greatness, but this idea that there's some consensus that Veneta is "THE best"...I just can't agree with that.

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Poster: waynecs Date: Aug 28, 2009 3:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

When it comes to 1972,I'd hafta go w/April 24 (Rockin the Rhein).

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Aug 28, 2009 7:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever? Not even the best of the month according to Dick

I personally love the show and also can't see how you leave it out of a top 5. However Dick, didn't agree. Here is an excerpt from an interview in 1996.

Question : Dick, many Dead scholars say their favorite is Veneta 72. Don't you think its time to release that as a Dick's Picks?

DL : No. There are about 4-5 other shows around that time that were better...There weren't that many exciting points in that show. Who is making everyone vote for that one? It was a hot day - the guitars were out of tune.. I don't see doing that right away -Sorry.

Here is the link to the interview.

http://www.gdforum.com/chats/961010DL.html

I dunno, them out of tune guitars sound sound awfully sweet to these untrained ears.

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Poster: deadmax Date: Aug 27, 2009 7:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

The playing is of course phenomenal and this is a stupendous example of musical artistry. The problem I have is all of the "Stage Announcements". Good grief! How many lost kids? I'm surprised they could pull off a show like this with all the hooha going on. But ,since they are "the boys" they did pull it off. In bits and pieces.

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Poster: elkdog Date: Aug 28, 2009 6:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

Those announcements are my only knock against that show as well. Really seems to disrupt the flow for me, though others will say it helps capture the atmosphere of the event. Either way, the music that day was simply incredible. PITB, Bird Song, GSET, and obviously the Dark Star are all as good as it gets. I avoid "best ever" labelling just based on the ethos and approach of the band, but there are certainly shows, or passages within shows, where the were firing on all cylinders and things really clicked. On 8-27-72, they were "on" for the whole show.

That said, my love for 11-11-73 runs deep.

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Poster: deadmax Date: Aug 28, 2009 9:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

Me too ED, I can listen to both of these without the announcements again and again. 11/11/73 has been in heavy rotation for about 30 years.

6/9/77 stays in there too.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Aug 27, 2009 5:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

If I didn't have tunnel-vision for 10/29/77 I would agree this is indeed the best show ever.

My vote for DeKalb over Veneta has more to do with my subjective feeling for the Dead's '77 sound and jamming style vs. '72, but from a purely objective standpoint, it's hard to argue with the performance they delivered on 8/27/72.

It is a show I keep returning to because everything is so PRISTINE...that's the word I thing best sums it up. The vocals are crisp and the playing so tight, yet the jams--as evidenced by a possibly best-ever BIRDSONG and PITB--are generous and creative.

The show rocks when it needs to (BERTHA, CASEY JONES, DEAL), yet delivers nuanced, relaxed gems as well (SUGAREE, SING ME BACK HOME).

If I had one Dead show to show off to "non-believers", I would showcase this one. "Best Ever" is always going to be a subjective assessment, so I won't yield on my 10/29/77 answer to that question, but i do think it's fair to make the argument that 8/27/72 MUST fall into any serious Top 10 list of shows, and I would go as far to say Top 5 as well.

For me, it's number 2 on the all-time list, and that's saying something for a fan so enamred of '77 that his next 4 or 5 shows might be from that year alone.

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Poster: Tidewater four ten O nine Date: Aug 27, 2009 5:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

but by '77 the drumming had deteriorated to that dull, duplicated, plodding percussion reminiscent of Greg Elmore on "Happy Trails" - but he was able to do it all on his own, he didn't need another drummer to mimic. Unless they interact (like they did on 'Live/Dead'), two isn't necessarily better than one.

Give me '72 over '77 anyday, but maybe something from Europe '72 (i.e. with Pigpen).

I mean, just like Barton Hall (yawn) how can it be the best ever Dead show without Pigpen? Show some respect (and commonsense).

But, respect to you too, it's all subjective (i.e. IMHO) so, if that's what floats your boat ........

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Aug 27, 2009 6:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

Gonna have to go and disagree with you there on the drumming thang, re: '77.

Why not truck on over here

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1977-10-29.sbd.miller.92085.sbeok.flac16

and give that SUGAR MAG a listen?

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Poster: Tidewater four ten O nine Date: Aug 27, 2009 6:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

Great song, but pedestrian version (drumming). You can almost imagine 2-3 boy scouts helping Billy & Mickey cross the road, holding up the traffic and carrying their Zimmer frames.

I preferred it when the Dead were young and full of vitality e.g. "Live/Dead" and my first (green vinyl TMQ label) bootleg:-

http://www.archive.org/details/gd70-10-04.fm.glassberg_winters.28363.sbeok.shnf

Track 11 (as in 'The Eleven' on "Live/Dead" - there's some real drumming there!!!).

But, heh, let's not fall out - it's all personal subjective opinion NO-ONE can prove that one is better than the other and the more 70/71/72 for me, the more 77 is left for you.

One concession though - during a wasted moment or three (more like 2 weeks), I collected every "Friend of the Devil" from 1977 on the Archive - 12 in all if memory serves me right and put them on 2 CDs (had to drop one 'cos could only fit in 11) and listened to them again and again and again. Just love the insturmental breaks in the middle - tends to be Keith -> Bob -> Jerry with sometimes Jerry providing almost a fake ending before taking-off (soaring) once again before the dull, plodding chorus (you thought I was going to say "drumming" didn't you? - so you know what I mean?) comes in again. I just love those instrumental breaks - almost like mini 'Dark Stars'.

Keep on Truckin'

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Aug 28, 2009 2:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

Yes! I used to really hate the transition from the original, almost bluegrass fast versions of FOTD to the ballad-like power chord versions, but the more I listened the more I came to like the really well-played slow versions (10/29/77 happens to have a superior FOTD!)

One concession I'll certainly make for the one-drummer (Billy) over the 2-man set up is in some of those great China>Riders from 1974 (i.e. my favorite ever 2/24/74) in which Billy just flows and does his best Buddy Rich/Gene Krupa-like fast-drumming to keep up and then eventually drive the whole band on the jams).

Ultimately, though, I like the 2-man set up b/c certain tunes are given that extra percussion push (Cassidy, LIG, Scarlet>Fire) that I think are missing in the just-Billy days.

As you say, all subjective...and always fun to discuss!

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Aug 27, 2009 5:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

I will say that 10-29-1977 has definitely moved up the list for me through the years...08-27-1972 might not necessarily be my "favorite" show ever, but in trying to objectify Dead music, it is the best show...

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Poster: pequastogy Date: Aug 29, 2009 9:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

Eating breakfast to this show has been wonderful. The playin is out of this world! Thanks

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Poster: barrybuttery Date: Aug 29, 2009 4:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

This is one of my faves. But there could never ever be a best dead show. Sunshine Daydream is a great tape too and this is the show it was filmed at.

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Poster: barrybuttery Date: Aug 29, 2009 4:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

This is one of my faves. But there could never ever be a best dead show. Sunshine Daydream is a great tape too and this is the show it was filmed at.

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Aug 28, 2009 7:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

72 vid>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLzUme1gN8c&;feature=PlayList&p=EFA6B32A1CF7887D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=24 and part 2> d-star http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmiOBYJy2vk&;feature=related

This post was modified by whirlwind dreamer 65-95 on 2009-08-28 14:34:16

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Aug 28, 2009 9:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

the Dark Star, Playin, and Bird Song are drippin with pshycedelia nether regions BUT I can't say this is the best show ever. Guitars out of tune and over all the vibe a little too weird. Definitely great epic show.

As for best show ever? That's impossible. Shows that I think are better? Just in the same year alone I'd go with one from Europe 72 for starters. That's a hard pick in itself. Maybe 5-26.

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Poster: deadmax Date: Aug 28, 2009 9:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

4/8/72 perhaps?

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Aug 28, 2009 9:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

ok, how about several from Europe 72. Personally I think that was their most magnificent perfect tour ever.

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Poster: deadmax Date: Aug 28, 2009 11:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

What are the weakest shows from Europe '72?

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Poster: snori Date: Aug 28, 2009 12:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

The shortest ones ..

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Aug 28, 2009 11:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

none of them : )

I haven't heard every Europe show but I'd put the weakest one ( if there is such a thing )against any strong show after 77. And I am NOT in the same camp as Tell and Cliff either, I enjoy all eras of the band. I just happen to think those were their most majestic shows ever.

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Aug 28, 2009 12:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

i really like the 5-11 rotterdam show check it out:) http://www.archive.org/details/gd72-05-11.sbd.samaritano.9357.sbeok.shnf enjoy the good lovin alone smokes :)

This post was modified by whirlwind dreamer 65-95 on 2009-08-28 19:59:53

Attachment: 19720526_1779.jpg

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Aug 28, 2009 1:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

agreed! isn't that the longest Dark Star on record too?

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Aug 28, 2009 1:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

i'm not sure jots ?? i dont follow the statistics that much but i know it is a smoking show for sure:) and really killer quality

Attachment: 19720718_2030.jpg

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Aug 28, 2009 10:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

yeah, other than those three tunes you mention, it seems like a typical 72 show to my ears. not that i have listened to it in a while though.

i'll take 5/25/77 as an "overall" show rather than veneta.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Aug 28, 2009 12:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

When asked by an open minded music friend about the "best Dead show", I hesitate; no one show gets it all . I would have to pick, 4 or 5 ! Even if you limit it to 72, and leave out Europe, there are so many good ones !
As great as the Dark Star is, you can hear Jerry hint at Morning Dew , but Bob blasts into El Paso, them stops . Sing Me Back Home is great, but ... Morning Dew ! I have heard more interesting transitions, and better flowing sets .
I think 8-27 is overrated, but so is any of the "best" shows usually mentioned.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Aug 28, 2009 1:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

yeah - even trying to limit it to 4 or 5 is a tough job. Gotta admit i have no sure fire clear favorite when it comes to pure "all 'round" shows.

second set of 9/18/87 sure comes close to a perfect set though (imho)

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Aug 28, 2009 1:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

you mean the worse than mariachi band sounding la bamba? (or however cliff described it).

still one of the most fun nights i had with boys

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Aug 28, 2009 1:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

lol :)

yup, that one.

the LaBamba i saw at Providence a few shows before NY was a blast too - it was just the sheer "fun" of them playing that - Cliff has no sense of humor

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Poster: user unknown Date: Aug 28, 2009 3:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

Possibly. But I would never proclaim it "The Best" without very close comparison to 3/1/69 and 4/29/71.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Aug 28, 2009 6:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

"best" discussions always deteriorate into the land of subjectvity. Fun place to visit, if a little dizzying after a while.

But I would argue against Cliff's assertion (and hey, Cliff, no disrepeck, 'y'know we're simpatico, right ;-)? that jams didn't exist in '77. Untrue.

There are plenty of jams in '77...Just because the band stopped doing 45 minute Dark Stars in '77 doesn't mean they stopped jamming...they just picked different tunes to do it and in a different (often more hard rock n roll) style...any of the Slipknots from the 5/9/77 or 6/9/77 shows will prove my point...or the monster NFA jam from 5/26/77, or many of the versions of TOO they did that year.

and as has been mentioned, many of the Scarlet>Fires (5/8/77, 10/2/77, 5/17/77 just to name 3) contain beautiful jams worthy of any year.

Long Live 1977!

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Aug 27, 2009 5:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

Although I think its impossible to label anything "The Best Ever" when it comes to categorizing performances by the Grateful Dead, I have to concur that the Veneta show certainly deserves consideration, for so many reasons!

And while I do agree that the Dekalb show is tremendous and certainly among the best from 1977, it is most definately not in the same class as 8/27/72, or virtually any performance prior to 1976 for that matter.

As far as "jamming style" I have yet to hear any music from 1977 that I would even consider to be a "jam" as I define that word...

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Poster: billydlions Date: Aug 27, 2009 7:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

Cliff, what are you defining as jamming? I agree that there were not as many 30 minute Dark Stars or Playing in the Bands after 1974, however other songs gained much more jamming. The average 1st set songs had more jamming such as Jack Straw, Sugaree, Deal, Cassidy to name a few. It's hard to argue that Scarlet-Fire or Stranger or Eyes were not good jamming songs. I guess there's no use arguing with you since you are not going to change your opinion but you're missing out on some great shows which is a shame (not to mention there are some real shitty shows from your era as well).

This post was modified by billydlions on 2009-08-28 02:12:36

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Poster: deadmax Date: Aug 27, 2009 6:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 08-27-1972 Best Show Ever?

uh-oh.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Aug 27, 2009 7:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: No Jams in '77?

http://www.archive.org/details/gd77-03-20.sbd.miller.25610.sbeok.shnf

Even the end of the Other One from this show, or the end of Scarlet Begonias, wouldn't count as jams? This is closer to the '76 style....

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